James Mcpherson: Joining me is my panel, Nova Radio host Michelle Stevenson and Liberal Senator Matt O’Sullivan. Welcome to you both. Matt, let me start with you. Why is Angus Taylor the man to save the Liberals rather than Andrew Hastie?
Matt O’Sullivan: Well, look, we had to make a very difficult decision during the week as a party and the reality was we’re hearing from Australians that we had to see some clarity of vision for our country that was going to get our country back on track. And look, Andrew Hastie is a very good friend of mine and I’m flatmates with him in Canberra. He just made the decision that now wasn’t really the time for him and clearly based on the feedback he was getting, the party wasn’t quite ready for him. But what we heard was that there was time for and a mood for change. And so we made that decision during the week and I’m really glad that we have and I think Angus Taylor is going to do a terrific job.
James Mcpherson: Like both of you, I watched Angus Taylor and Jane Hume out this morning sprouting the new leadership. I honestly thought there were a lot of cliches and motherhood statements. No details. Am I expecting too much this early?
Michelle Stevenson: I think you’re expecting way too much from the Liberal Party. I mean, they’re not done talking about themselves just yet. Look, I think we really need some details and I think the housing affordability is a good one for them to start on because clearly that is something that is on everyone’s mind. I mean, even myself, I’m a renter. I can’t even get into the housing market. So, I do think that that is a good one for them to start on. But we do need that detail. We need them to come out strong with some actual policies. We need them to come out strong actually holding the government to account. I just don’t want them coming out and just spruiking themselves a bit. We need to get on and we need to move forward.
James Mcpherson: Matt, do you reckon that’s good advice? I mean, we’ve heard a lot of cliches and that was part of the criticism, I suppose, of Sussan Ley. Should the coalition leadership now go to ground for a bit and come back out when they’ve actually got something to say?
Matt O’Sullivan: Well, look, I don’t think we should spend too long doing that because I think that’s what we heard loud and clear is that Australian people want to hear clarity about what our vision is for the country. And so we will have to get out there quickly. Obviously, it’s only 48 hours, so let’s just deal with that. But look, we will no doubt work through these things, come out with the policies that are really going to matter to people, hardworking Australians that really just want to get ahead and they haven’t been able to under this government, under the Labor government. And what we’ve got to present is some clear policies that will make a difference. Housing, of course, is one of them. Immigration is another. We want to provide some flexibility in the childcare settings. That’s what Angus Taylor has already mentioned are going to be our priorities and I look forward to working with him.
James Mcpherson: Right. Labor MPs are pretending that Sussan Ley’s axing is proof of misogyny within the Liberal Party. Now I think that’s rubbish, but the Libs weren’t helped by women’s advocate Charlotte Mortlock announcing this morning that she’d torn up her Liberal Party membership. Matt, you were part of that not-so-secret meeting on the morning of former Liberal MP Katie’s funeral that’s been heavily criticized. If you had your time over, would you have done it differently?
Matt O’Sullivan: Well, we met out in the suburbs for a good reason, not realizing we were being tailed by a paparazzi. Look, these are discussions that should be happening behind closed doors and obviously should be happening discreetly. Unfortunately, it was exposed in the way that it was and that certainly wasn’t the intention of anyone attending. Look, the reality is over 2 million voters that voted for us last time, if you believe the polls, they’re saying they’re not going to vote for us now. And that means that about a million female voters are saying the same thing. So, look, I get how we can look at these things through gendered lenses. But the reality is what all Australians want, including women of course, is policies that are going to matter to them. Policies that are going to help them get ahead. Policies that are going to help them buy a home. Policies that are going to help them to afford to live. And what we’re seeing is a lack of clarity around that. So that’s why we made the decision we did. And look, I get how the public will see this and those commentators and those on the particularly those who are opposed to us want to project this as a gendered thing. But look, the reality is we’ve got to get back to what matters to all Australians.
James Mcpherson: Charlotte Mortlock had drafted a proposal for New South Wales Liberals to introduce gender quotas. That proposal was binned a couple of weeks ago. Now Charlotte’s gone. Are the Liberal Party better off with Charlotte Mortlock and her gender quotas?
Michelle Stevenson: Look, I’m a big fan of Charlotte Mortlock. I know her personally and I am part of the Liberal Party because of her. She’s done some incredible work bringing great women into the fold and she needs to be really championed and thanked for that. I do think this is a really sticky one to discuss like whether we need to have those gender quotas. I do think we have a problem within the party that there isn’t enough women and that they aren’t championed hard enough. But how do we champion them and how do we get them in those positions of power? I think that’s a bigger discussion. Do we need quotas per se? I don’t know. But I do think we need to be having the discussion. And unfortunately, it gets lost. The nuance in the discussion gets lost.
James Mcpherson: Matt, does it frustrate you as a Liberal? I mean, you are criticized for rolling Sussan Ley, the first Liberal leader, but of course, the Labor Party rolled Julia Gillard, the first Australian prime minister. On top of that, you know, the Liberals have a woman problem. Well, you’ve had a female leader for the last nine months. Now you’ve got a female deputy. Of course, the Labor Party are led by two men.
Matt O’Sullivan: Yeah. Look, of course. And I pointed out the fact that number of women that have said they’re not going to vote for us at the moment. And so we’ve got to address that. Look, the problem is obviously you’ve got to be in a competitive position to be able to win seats. We actually had right across the country some terrific women standing for us at the last election. Here in Western Australia, we had some wonderful women standing for us. But of course, you know, if your electoral cycle is such that you’re not in a competitive position, you can’t see those people get in. So, I think the Liberal Party has taken great lengths to improve our capacity to attract women that want to stand for us, that want to put themselves forward, and clearly we’ve got to improve more collectively to be able to be competitive so that we can get those women in.
James Mcpherson: All right. My colleague Andrew Clennell took trade minister Don Farrell to task this morning after it was revealed he spent more than $90,000 flying his wife and adult kids around the country under the parliamentary family reunion benefits. Have a look.
Don Farrell (Video Clip): Well, the first observation I’d make, Andrew, is that I’ve complied strictly with every single rule in this area and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has said otherwise.
James Mcpherson: Matt, this is something that really frustrates me when people defend their actions with, “Well, it wasn’t wrong.” Yeah, sure it wasn’t wrong, but was it wise?
Matt O’Sullivan: Yeah, look, obviously this is I would be on a hiding to nothing with you and your listeners if I didn’t stick the boots into Don Farrell. Look, I’m not in Don’s situation, right? I’m not a senior minister. I travel to Canberra a lot and I’m away from family, but I’m home most weekends, so I don’t really use the family travel much at all. Someone like Don who’s away a lot. Maybe there’s a case for his use. I don’t know exactly what he was using it for and what his personal circumstances were. But look, obviously these things don’t pass the pub test and really that’s what we have to be accountable to and we are accountable every time we head to the election and ballot box and the Australian people will hold us to account. But look, I think there’s, you know, at least he wasn’t keeping a Comcar waiting for eight hours out the front of the Australian Open. I mean, I think that clearly goes way too far.
James Mcpherson: Yeah, I don’t think anyone’s going to disagree with you on that one. One of the things that got people’s attention, Michelle, was he paid for his wife to take a flight to join him at Uluru for a function. Here’s his explanation. Have a listen.
Don Farrell (Video Clip): I make no apologies for supporting Australian tourism operators in the Red Centre. I think that is my job, Andrew.
James Mcpherson: Don’t you love the not-so-subtle shift of topic that the issue is his wife’s travel and he pretends the outrage is over whether or not he’s doing a good job promoting tourism in the Red Centre.
Michelle Stevenson: Absolutely. The optics on this are just terrific. And it’s wild to me that while people can’t afford to buy the daily essentials, we’ve got them spending all our cash, $90,000 to fly their wives and whoever to join them on some luxury dinner out. I just don’t understand how they can sit there and justifiably say that, well, it’s within the rules. It might be within the rules, but it is a bad look and it’s our money that you are wasting.
James Mcpherson: Yeah, indeed. All right. Former Victorian Liberal Premier Jeff Kennett is urging his party to do preference deals with One Nation to ensure the Jacinta Allan government is defeated at the November state election. A new poll shows in Victoria, One Nation is currently sitting on 21% of the primary vote, only two points behind Labor and behind the coalition sitting on 29%. Matt, it’s pretty smart, isn’t it, for the Liberals in Victoria and the Coalition federally to swap preferences with One Nation?
Matt O’Sullivan: Oh, look, absolutely. Look, there’s actually a great deal that we have in common with One Nation and I work very closely with my One Nation colleagues. Obviously Pauline Hanson, but some of her others, Malcolm Roberts in particular I’m particularly fond of is a very hard worker in the Australian Senate. Look, and so you know, I think what we’ve seen with the polls and the fact that Australians are saying they’re going to shift their vote to One Nation has been the big wake-up call that we’ve required. I mean, it’s been a massive issue for us to have to contend with and I think it’s eminently sensible to be working on a preference deal there in Victoria and I hope that we’ll do that federally.
James Mcpherson: Now, that of course would mean that members of the coalition would have to stop demonizing One Nation, but I mean if the ALP are going to say, “Oh, how are you dealing with One Nation?” I mean, they swap different preferences with the Greens, right?
Michelle Stevenson: I know. When you talk about like preference deals, the Greens is one of the worst preference deals that they do. I mean, they’re basically supporting a whole party that has just turned their back on what they were basically fundamentally born to do and that was to like be about the environment and now they’ve become like about pro-Palestine. But I think what we need to do is make sure that we are representing people as a whole and One Nation are representing people. They are getting votes because people have had enough. And I think that we can’t keep demonizing these politicians that we don’t agree with because at the end of the day you’re just demonizing a section of society that is voting for them.
James Mcpherson: Yep. Michelle Stevenson, Senator Matt O’Sullivan. Thanks to both of you for your time tonight.